I do, I recommend it to people

It’s been a while since Sunday school, do they mention “time in the desert” other than the 40 days when the devil was screwing with him?

“Why are you thinking about children so much? Kinda suspicious.”

I like the idea that Jesus spent the 20 years between debating rabbis and his own ministry going east on the silk road and learning Buddhism. I’ve always felt like base Christianity seems like Buddhist principles through a Jewish lens.

I’ve had one since I was like 13, and I make sure to actively remember it periodically so it’ll work.

Secondly, 360° doesn’t really make sense, probably they meant 180°.

It makes sense if you consider birds to be a mid-360° position of dinosaur evolution. They started at “classic” dinosaurs, pivoted to the avian variety, and will continue to pivot until they return to their classic form.

I’m saying people who use the term mansplain aren’t using it differently, they actually do believe the person talking to them is condescending.

Which brings us back to the “expert” angle which has been completely dropped. That’s the mechanism that lends legitimacy to the accusation of condescension. That’s what elevates a vague perception of condescension to an accurate assessment. Otherwise you’re just flinging sexist slurs based on your immediate personal vibes.

That’s the change in meaning.

being sexist condescending assholes seems to be more of a thing men do

Right, like being a relf-righteous martyr seems to be more of a thing women do, which is experienced by a large number of men. But that doesn’t make it right to characterize all women as doing it, or suggest that it’s unique to women, which the term “womencomplaining” implicitly does.

Women “mansplain”, men “womancomplain”. Only an obnoxious minority of men “mansplain”, only an obnoxious minority of women “womancomplain”. Those people are obnoxious. Focusing on their gender gets dangerous close to “13%” territory.

condes-plaining

I like that way more, actually. That might be a legitimate replacement which highlights the problem without being sexist.

I know this is anecdotal, but I haven’t seen or experienced the term being used inaccurately all that often.

Anecdotally, I have.

“You know, that’s terrible form, here’s how you do it the right way” versus “Hey, excuse me, I noticed your form isn’t safe and could lead to injury. Would you like some help?” I think both ways get the point across, one of them is a lot nicer than the other.

Agreed. But even the second is considered condescending by some.

I think you’re doing the same thing subconsciously

Uh, that is actually kinda condescending. I was fully conscious when I decided on my tone.

Now if someone finds what you’re saying offensive when you’re not trying to be offensive, then you can either rephrase yourself or accept that you won’t be able to effectively communicate with that person one-on-one.

And that’s the issue. Once person X has decided person Y is offensive, all appeals and rephrasings will be discarded as additional offenses. Sure, that’s no big loss in any individual case, but the more popular that trend becomes, the more people cut off from effective communication.

We agree that “mansplaining” means “When a man condescendingly explains a subject to a woman who is an expert in that subject, because he assumes being a woman makes her ignorant”.

I’m saying “condescendingly” is defined by intent, even subconscious.

You’re saying “condescendingly” is defined by perception, even inaccurate.

When I say it is being used differently, I’m talking about the shift from my definition of “condescendingly” to yours.

Although, there’s also the “who is an expert in that subject” modifier on “woman” that has definitely been dropped in contemporary usage as well.

Mansplaining is a real problem.

I get that, I do not disagree. My main complaints are:

1 With the term itself, because a la my “womancomplaining” analogy, it shifts the focus from “this man was being a sexist, condescending asshole” to “being a sexist condescending asshole is just a thing men do”

2 With the overuse which is used to broadly dismiss legitimate attempts at communication. It’s definitely a problem when random guys try to explain a woman’s specialty to her, not so much when an man with expertise tries to correct a woman who’s definitely wrong. The problem isn’t that this behavior is being called out when it happens, I’m totally fine with that (though the term itself is still sexist). The problem is that it’s being used to defect legitimate communication.

I believe that the way the message is perceived is more important than the intent of the message. My intent with this reply is to help you try to think and observe this issue more openly.

I appreciate that, but I’ve done that. I understand that it’s important to be empathetic, I try to myself whenever possible. But communication breaks down when you pander to everyone for the sake of the most sensitive perceiver. No one can control how someone else feels, and you can’t know who is going to feel what way. If everyone treated each other in the gentlest way possible no one could effectively communicate.

Conflict is necessary for improvement. You cannot progress without some disagreement with the current state. If someone is wrong, and no one wants to hurt their feelings by correcting them, they will continue being wrong. In another message, I used the example of a person about to lift weights with a terrible form that was sure to cause them avoidable injury. An expert onlooker holding their tongue for fear of seeming condescending spares the lifter the feeling of being talked down to, but replaces that with serious self-injury.

I don’t mean to be condescending, but I’m sure these same words may be condescending to some people.

This is a perfect illustration. You’ve been nothing but patient and gentle, you haven’t said anything condescending, but you’re still worried that I might think it is, even after I’ve shown clear objection to that kind of hypersensitivity. It’s infantilizing in its own way to treat everyone as if they can’t handle the slightest disagreement without being offended. The whole premise of moderating your communication to avoid offending the most sensitive perceiver grinds effective communication among equals to a halt.

Yes, and it’s a bad thing. That’s my point.

In her mind she views the man as being condescending. In her mind she believes she knows better. So she’s using the term correctly.

Now to be clear, I’m not saying it is mansplaining. Nor am I saying the man shouldn’t be doing it in that scenario.

That’s my point. It’s being used far too liberally. I’m not saying they don’t feel justified in using it, I’m saying that the standard being applied is far too low, and it shuts down legitimate communication. It has the built in defense of delegitimizing any attempts at clarification, because obviously the mansplainer is just mansplaining how he isn’t mansplaining.

To go back to my analogy:

Would you likewise agree that a man would be justified in accusing a woman, with an accurate and valid complaint, of womancomplaining simply because he felt she was exaggerating? And couldn’t he then go on to deflect any clarification she offers as further womancomplaining?

I’m not saying these people don’t feel like they’re using their terms correctly, I’m saying that it shuts down communication and accelerates the weaponization of accusation. It contributes to the gender divide, and has certainly helped to nudge men towards man-o-sphere radicalization.

It is used much more freely than that. I agree that it’s a problem when it actually happens, but I’d argue the accurate use of the term is not the typical one.

I have no reason to believe the person using it doesn’t believe the man is being rude/condescending. Just because I personally believe something isn’t condescending doesn’t mean the person doesn’t view it like that (and whether the person is actually being condescending is a totally different topic).

There are a lot of insecure people in the world, to whom any explanation feels condescending. Are we really suggesting that the perception of the recipient is more valid than the intent of the subject? That’s kinda the whole problem.

Is it mansplaining for a man who’s been a physical trainer for years to explain to a woman that she’s about to seriously hurt herself with improper form? He knows what he’s talking about, she’s definitely going to hurt herself, his tone is polite but urgent, and the intent is sincerely to help her avoid that. Is her feeling that he’s being condescending by criticizing her form enough to make him a mansplainer?

it could be that the term really is used differently and I just haven’t personally seen it (always a possibility).

I have personally seen it. I’ve personally been accused of mansplaining when correcting someone on something I know a great deal about, and immediately after watching them do it very wrong. Honestly I’ve probably seen it used defensively to delegitimize the man in question much more often than I’ve seen actual mansplaining.

I’m not saying it’s not a real phenomenon, but it seems more often to be a term used to shut down legitimate communication.

In addition to “basic” being relative, I was also speaking more generally about the concept, not purely about the exact post.

I hate how the term “mansplaining” has mutated from “When a man condescendingly explains a subject to a woman who is an expert in that subject, because he assumes being a woman makes her ignorant”, which is certainly a valid thing to be upset about, into “Whenever a man explains anything to any woman” , which is sexist and divisive.

The term is still pretty sexist as originally used though. It inherently implies that it’s a characteristic masculine behavior. If you disagree, allow me to demonstrate:

I just came up with this term, “womancomplaining”, it’s when a woman exaggerates a minor inconvenience into a targeted victimization.

How does that term make you feel? Does it seem to imply that I’m talking about a specific, isolated behavior? Or does it seem more like I’m implying this is a characteristic feminine behavior? Would it feel less sexist if I insisted I wasn’t talking about all women, but if you take offense then maybe you feel defensive about being a womancomplainer? What if I told you to calm down, because if you aren’t guilty of it then I’m not talking about you?

It still seems pretty sexist, doesn’t it.

I’m just… not late, and I don’t see why I should practice being disrespectful with other people’s time.

It’s weird to me that their therapist just suggested disrespecting other people’s time like that. Like sure, give yourself grace but… just be late? Why should you change? It’s the tardy people that suck.

Like alternating between, mixed drink, or just both cans right to the mouth at once?

If there weren’t poors wallowing around in the street, who are they supposed to toss spare change so they can feel Grateful™?

So spring foods?